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Colorado Commissioners: Scott Gibbs-Vice Chair, Mark Graybill-Treasurer
New Mexico Commissioners: Kim Smith-Casford-Secretary, Billy Elbrock-Chairman
CEO of the Cumbres & Toltec railroad: Eric Mason
Glossary (initialisms that may appear in this document):
ARPA: American Rescue Plan Act of 2021
BAR: Budget Adjustment Request
C&TS: Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad
C19: Covid-19 virus
CO: Colorado
CDOT: Colorado Department Of Transportation
CRF: Car Restoration Facility, Antonito
CS: Colorado Springs, CO
CTO: Cumbres Toltec Operating company
D&RG: Denver & Rio Grande Railroad
D&S: Durango Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
DFA: Department of Financial Administration (NM)
DRHS: Durango Railroad Historical Society
DTS: Dynamic Ticket Solutions (the prior ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FH: Fare Harbor (the current ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FY: Fiscal Year
FRA: Federal Railroad Administration
G&A: General and Administrative
HPA: Historic Preservation Account, or Historic Preservaton Association
HR: Human Relations
JBC: Joint Budget Committee (CO)
LFC: Leglislative Finance Committee (NM)
MOW: Maintenance Of Way
NOI: Net Operating Income
NM: New Mexico
ROW: Right of Way
RPO: Railroad Post Office
RR: Railroad, the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, unless mentioned otherwise
SHF: State Historic Fund (CO)
SLV: San Louis Valley, the area that contains Antonito
TABB: Tracks Across Borders Byway
VIHR: Victorian Iron Horse Roundup (August 2021 special event)
YTD: Year To Date (fiscal normally)
‘the Friends’: The Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR, the museum arm,
http://www.cumbrestoltec.org
Brief summary follows, the full video of the presentation is here: FY24 Audit Presentation
The job of the auditors is to verify if the financial records are materially correct. While there were a few findings, the records were materially correct. This audit was a bit different than the past audits done by the firm. This audit was performed using CO rules. Previous audits were done to NM rules. This changed the deadline for the audit and various reporting requirements. The audit was submitted late to CO. It is hoped that the audit will be on time next year (by end of Jan 2026). The C&TS is to use purchase orders in all cases. There were a few purchases that didn't have an order. Commissioner Graybull mentioned that one contractor was the reason for the late audit. That contractor is no longer with the RR. CO requires the audit to be submitted much earlier than NM.
Steven was working on a locomotive for a charter the evening of the meeting. Scott read his summary. 168 is in service. It will run again 08/04. 463 is out of service. It passed its annual boiler inspection in April. The new tires are installed. It required a new wedge for one axle. It is getting new hub liners for all four axles. New crown brasses are being worked on. The rumors the wheels were sent out is wrong. It is being done in house. 484 is in service. Last week the trailing truck wheels were dropped and turned. 484 will be out of 1472 time at the end of the season after the winter trains. It will then be down for an extensive time for the 1472 servicing. 487 is in service. It was down last week for a boiler wash and 31 day inspection. Over the last few years, it has received significant boiler work. It also received a new tender tank, cylinder sleeves and piston rods. 488 is in service. It too has had a recent boiler wash and 31 day inspection. A main rod brass was replaced. 489 is out of service. It passed its annual hydro and boiler inspection in April (along with the rest of the fleet). Wheel work is being done by an outside contractor. Axles 1, 2 & 3 have been turned. 1 & 4 are getting new crank pins. 4 is getting a new axle. All 4 axles are being quartered at the Age of Steam in Ohio. 492 is out of service. In June the boiler was sealed up and the hydro was done to 65 PSI. There were some leaking stay bolts in the fire box as well as some wash out plugs. The next step is to remove the tubes for a survey. 15 is in service as the Chama switcher, 19 for Antonito and MOW. 114 is in service. It had a successful trip to Osier and back. There are still a few tweaks to the computer system.
The season started May 30. The season started in iffy status. The RR was short locomotives. Credit goes out to shop crews, train crews. Reservation staff really stepped up. They handled a lot of tough phone calls. By the end of June, the RR was providing expected service. The water systems at Cumbres and Sublette have been problematic. A lot of work went into repairs. Some water lines required repair. Things are starting to settle down, which in the long run will help keep the customers happy. At this time work on other projects can get moving. The Long Creek project is underway. It is going to be a major effort. It will take more effort than previously expected. Getting equipment into the area is going to be tricky. More hand labor will be required. The excavator has been working on the ROW. There have been a few times where a train had to hold up so the excavator could get out of the way. Pretty much causing some 5 to 10 minute delays. There have been many questions about 114. It will start moving ballast Tuesday (8/5) to Cumbres. That should help free up #19 for other work, fire mitigation and ROW cleanup. Osier dining hall has been operating OK. The generator has been fine. Monday (8/4) the CO legislature will be given a train ride. 168 will pull that train. Commissioner Gibbs thanked Marvin and crew for the fire mitigation work done this season. The appropriation was fully expended by the end of June. Great work was done over the whole RR, in national forest properties. Marvin replied that the forest service was there to advise. They worked right along with the RR. It was a joint effort. The forest service also helped out with the water line issue at Cumbres. The forest service was pleased with the quality of work the RR got done with the money they had for the project. Commissioner Graybull thanked the teams for its recovery from the rocky season start. The ticketing agents had a rough time at the beginning of the season, shuffling reservations around and all. Marvin around the agents as they working on their calls. It wasn't easy for them. The water issues are not yet solved. The water line at Cumbres needs a lot of attention. It needs to be repaired this fall, otherwise, next season will begin with water issues there. Most of that water line looks to be original, steel pipe. Some of it is welded flue pipe. As he dug alongside the pipe, the pipe would flake off, some times big flakes. About 3000 feet of 2 inch PVC pipe should be used to replace the old. It should have several shut off valves, so future leaks are easier to find. The entire water line is about a mile long.
Josh (the auditor in item 4) covered the audit. His firm will be doing the next FY audit. There will be a single audit performed this year for the ARPA funds received from NM. The RR exceeded the $750,000 of funds provided. Josh will be providing some testing. This single audit will be done in addition to the annual state audit. The RR finance department is preparing for the next audit (by Josh). The financial statements are seeing some adjustments at this time. There has been a decrease in HPA funds over the prior year. As with the CTO balance sheet, this funding derives from operational revenue. Expenses have increased from prior year. The increase in HPA expense is in part due to the contract they have with the friends. The NOI for HPA has seen an increase from the prior year. The Commission balance sheet, the total assets have increased. Moneys between the various balance sheets has been moved around as required. As mentioned, the fire mitigation appropriation (CO)was fully spent, and the funds received from CO. P&L for capital projects to be sure it balances. CTO has seen an increase in total liabilities and equity. Total current assets have increased, including inventory. The RR purchased a lot of inventory this year, and it is selling well. Total liabilities have increased from prior year. In part because of due from and deferred revenue. The P&L sheet for CTO reflects a increase in NOI from the prior year and a decrease in total income. There is a different pricing structure for this year. The rocky start of the season took a toll on income. There has been a decrease in expenses, which helps the bottom line look better from prior year. The decreases in expenses are due to payroll and operational expenses. Budgets are currently being worked on. In about a week, there should be a much clearer picture of those. This will be the final year that Josh's firm will be performing the audit. After this current FY is complete, the RR will have to go with a CO audit firm. A firm in Alamosa has been contacted as a potential firm. Their contract could be a 3 to 6 year contract.
Abi is out training reservation agents. Marketing methods vary between digital, print, bill board, TV & radio. An ad on NM TV brought in a customer Eric explained. They did not know of the RR. Marketing will move a bit from local areas to more address peoples wants, needs and desires. The RR has a rich experience to provide to the public. The RR is down about 17% from the prior year. Marketing hopes to close that gap. Commissioner Graybill wanted to address the downturn in current reservations. He mentioned the rough start of the operational season being a part of the issue. This year, the tourism season is being effected. Anywhere from 10 to 30% decline industry wide. Las Vegas is down 11+%. Eric mentioned that discretionary dollars are used for travel are being held dearly this year. Commissioner Elbrock reported in being in LAX airport, and he saw a C&TS add there. Commissioner Smith-Casford reported that to be a "New Mexico True" add. They are all over LA and Dallas. New Mexico True has been really kind to the RR. Commissioner Elbrock mentioned that Eric had not been introduced (as the new CEO).
Eric then provided a self introduction and his vision for the RR. Eric reminded us that he was around during the C19 days. He has followed the RR over the last four years since departing the first time. He is glad to be back. He loves the team, the experience and the communities. He is looking to the vision of the RR from 2026 and beyond. People are changing. Demographics, psychographics are changing. There is a desire for more experiences in our lives. The RR can deliver those experiences. The RR is looking to entice younger generations to experience the RR. Since rejoining the RR, he has done an operational review, talking to the employees, receiving suggestions, and feedback. That task is nearly complete. He is looking into products and services for the RR. Shorter train rides would be an offering. Murder mysterys, dark sky trips, dining, wine tasting. The location of the RR lends it self to dark sky activities. Eric sees great potential for the dark sky community. Perhaps a few dark sky trains could run this season. Balancing the trips from Chama and Antonito could be addressed via marketing. The RR is located on pristine wilderness that so many people have never experienced. He has been working on team development, to help every team be more successful. With the addition of Steven Butler, he and Marvin are going to keep the locomotive fleet in good shape. The locomotives are really getting into shape at this point. Alysia mentioned that budgets are being finalized. Eric would like to see the different managers have the tools required for their departments. Operational budgets will be a priority. Managers have been compiling their data so budgets can be worked out. Historic preservation will be key. The friends are making headway on some of the facilities. It is time for the public to engage and interact with the assets. Community collaboration is important to Eric, the commission, and the RR. The goal is to "rise all the ships" for both the RR, Chama and Antonito. It is a goal to get the guests of the RR to stay in the area longer. It is important to keep the RR around for another 100 years. Eric thanked the teams for keeping the RR something desired by the public. Eric then presented friends president Rick Marsden with a check (from HPA funds) to the tune of $70,000. Commissioner Graybill thanked Eric for coming on board. Also, while a 7 hour train trip is nice for some riders, in todays fast paced society, shorter train trips need to be in the mix. Commissioner Gibbs mentioned that the shorter trips, Chama to Cumbres with a bus back, or Cumbres to Osier and back to Cumbres have been successes this year. It was agreed that those trips need a better marketing effort.
The communities had a rough start. Things are starting to settle down. There were a few disgruntled people show up at the Chama village counsel meetings, not speaking very highly of the RR. Several business owners are glad to have Eric back. The RR needs to change the way it operates. It may not mean a train leaving each side every day. The RR needs to reinvent itself to survive. Community support will be essential. It will be a challenge. Commissioner Elbrock mentioned that at his restaurant (Fina's) he gets complaints about not running on Monday. He explains that it is a business decision. It gives the employees a day off, and allows for needed maintenance. Then they understand. Since the train doesn't run on Monday, a lot of places are not open, especially the restaurants. There is one open on Mondays (Fina's). Eric mentioned that a need provide experiences for the customers. The goal is to bring in more more people, more frequently. Perhaps by having multiple departures per day. The RR exists to support the communities. Commissioner Graybill mentioned that other offerings will bring in more people.
Commissioner Gibbs felt that Steven Butler's & Marvin Casias's reports pretty well covered things. He saw new coach 526, which is nearly assembled. The Antonito shop has built a beautiful car. It took less than a year to take a prebuilt body to what it is today. Astonishing. It has steel siding rather than fiberglass, which should stand up to the weather better. Commissioner Graybill suggested mention of 315 activities. Gibbs replied that he wears a couple of hats in the RR world. 315 is seeing firebox work. Stay bolts under question have been removed. Morton locomotive works is fabricating new stay bolts. Those will be installed by this fall. Then 315 will move from Antonito to Golden CO. The Colorado Railroad Museum will use 315 as their second locomotive for their winter operations. It will remain in Golden until early, after the museums Colorado Crossings event. Afterward it will return to Antonito. There will need to be a future discussion between DRHS and the RR about future use. The commissioner will have to recuse himself from any of those discussions. A new five year agreement will need to be in place. There is already someone on the DRHS board assigned to working out the agreement.
John thanked the commissioners for allowing him to participate in this meeting. Last week John and TABB president John Bush met with Eric. It was agreed that a partnership between TABB and the RR will be mutually beneficial. How do we get people to stay longer in Chama? Get them to know and enjoy the byway. For railfans, there many artifacts to see along the byway. There is scenery, ghost towns, the two Indian nations. A little something for everyone. One priority project is to get the stock cars in Dulce replaced. Their is getting to be a bit of movement in the project. The nation wants to get it done. They are willing to buy the replacement cars, perhaps via tribal money and grants. There a couple of cars in the RV park in Chama of interest. The RV park owner, TABB and the nation need to look over the condition for possible purchase. The nation is looking at demolishing the old cars, possibly saving some of the lettered wood for a museum. The metal parts, which are in fairly OK shape, would be given to the friends. A second interpretive sign is ready to be installed at Junita. The county will install the signs. They have what they need. CDOT has produced a "Welcome to Colorful Colorado" sign for TABB. It will be installed between Dulce and Junita. While there is not a lot of traffic on that road, CDOT wanted to place a sign. The county will perform the work to do so. There are two sign bases built. There is a desire to have more interpretive signs along the byway. There is a strong desire for signage in Dulce. Signage in Chama is desired as well. Having signage in Chama for train riders to see may entice people to explore the byway. TABB continues to roll out its sponsorship program. One TABB issue is lack of a funding stream. TABB has reached out to the business community in Ignascio and Chama and Durango in search of sponsors. TABB has sponsorship packages ready now for any sponsor is interested. A new trifold brochure has been produced and is now available. It has a much more improved map thanks to CDOT. The brochures have been placed in visitor centers and businesses around the region. TABBs next meeting will be next Friday in Dulce. The meetings are open to all. John finally thanked Eric for his time and looking to more work together in the future.
The friends have also just completed their audit. They received a clean opinion from their auditing firm. The audit report was provided to the commission. The friends are pleased to be involved with the 100th year celebration of the K-36's. The RR has asked the friends for yard docents in Chama for August 13, 14 & 15. There will be about 10 docents to man a friends table, as well as assist the RR with the event. The docents will conduct tours of the Chama yard for the attendees. The tour is expected to conclude at the engine house, where the folks (staying outside) could see a K-36 inside. That would be the WOW factor to conclude the tour. The final stop on the tour would be the gift shop, so they can buy stuff. The Chama web cam program was terribly slow in getting back up. It is all pretty much new infrastructure. A new fiber optic line connects the system to the internet. The new system works pretty well, when the electricity works. There is one more camera to install in Chama. It will have a zoom lens. It has been funded. Its location has yet to be determined. KOAT is running RR commercials. Rick saw several RR billboards on his drive from Albuquerque. The TV spot included mention of the Chama web cams. That is the big reason for the cams, to bring in more people. There are two active friends charter trains for the season. The first one is to run the evening of the commission meeting. It was the wine tasting, dinner at Osier annual friends charter. Sales for that train were sluggish, but sales picked up after some newspaper advertising. The premium cars sold well, but the coach, not so much. There is a two day photo charter October 26 & 27. It will run from Chama to Antonito on day one, and return on day two. So far, about 75% of the 60 rider train have been sold. The friends have been working with Trains and Travel as tour organizer. There are passport issues for foreign riders, gaining timely entrances into the country. 60 people on a photo charter trains is about max. Too many people slows the process and ruins the experience. Work sessions A-F are done, as well as a special work session. There have been 13 brake and COTS inspections. 5 quick fix inspections and repairs on rail cars. Assembled a 20 ton truck to replace a 25 ton truck on MOW car 4258. Rider box car 3357 has been repaired and tested for brake operations. Box car 3263 is 80% complete. Tank car 1150 brake work is done and nearly complete. RPO 54 repairs complete. Needs painting. Idler car 6649 is 90% complete. Painting complete on four box cars and two flats. Painting complete in Antonito on a flat car. Lettering complete on several historic cars. Sublette section house had its south wall replaced along with floor and supports. Car inspectors house, had bead board installed along with windows, doors and security barriers. Installed exterior window covers. Working on the rear porch. Three mile marker posts have been replaced as well as a new station marker prior to Osier. Current membership is 1769. That number is down. Membership activity should pick up soon. Work is being done to solicit new members. 159 members were active volunters. There are 22 docents, with 22 more in training. Rick announced that friends founder Bill Lock (who attended this meeting) has agreed to be a docent. This year, facebook followers have increased 3% from last for the period of May thru June. Likes and reactions have increased by 148%. YouTube views are at about 7,000 per month. The friends would like to develop some fresh content for YouTube. Rick would like a library of content that people can freely use. Eric pointed out that the work done by the friends provides a better experience for the customers. Between TABB, the friends and the RR, having information about the RR builds interest to the riders. Rick told a story how he was in the Chama yard when the train came in. He saw a 7 year old looking over the wall of the gondola. His parents were at his side. As they arrived the child and his parents were wearing giant grins. The child was saying how he wanted to do this ride again. Getting video of those reactions (along with the rights to publish them) is very much desired for the friends. That kind of video content is worth three billboards. Commissioner Gibbs said that most people don't understand the museum aspect that the friends provide. There are 176 rail cars in one form or another on the property. It is a huge job to maintain that fleet. Gibbs thanked the friends for that work. The fleet might be the largest of its type in the world (being wooden cars). Bill Lock then added a comment. He said that yesterday there were over a dozen kids on the train working on their junior engineer badge. Bill suggested that media exposure of that program would be a good idea to bring in families.
Passed. Commissioner Gibbs wanted to comment. He said that two years ago, during the internal boiler inspection of 168 that there was significant wastage on the stay bolts. Some 50% gone. As long as the stay bolts don't break, the FRA is OK with the locomotive in service. There is a need for about $50,000 to repair the stay bolts. It is a desired project, so that locomotive can continue to operate. Commissioner Smith-Casford said that bringing in outside money is desired rather than the commission trying to find the money.
Approved.
Tabled at this time.
No old Business.
No public input.
No executive session.
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adopted May 20,2023 regarding limited personnel matters; strategy preliminary to attorney-client privilege pertaining to threatening or pending
litigation in which the public is or may become a prticipant, discussion of the purchase, acquisition or disposal of real property or water
rights by the public body. The Governing Body may revise the order of the agenda items considered at this Open Meeting.
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