This is my documentation from the
aspect as a reporter. This is NOT any official documentation of the
Cumbres & Toltec railroad, nor the Commission. If you saw this document via some
other web site, the original site of this document is
train.sbseiber.com. Videos & written reports of all commission meetings
that exist can be found here: Index of videos/reports
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Recently, the meeting minutes contain detailed information not presented in the meetings. They are available here: Official meeting minutes
Video of this meeting can be seen at: YouTube video of this meeting
I may not have all of the “legal” terms correct. There may be spelling errors of persons or businesses. I paraphrase much of what was said. I try to indicate what the speaker means. This document serves to give the readers not present at the meeting a “pretty good” idea of what happened.
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Colorado Commissioners: Scott Gibbs-Secretary, Mark Graybill-Chairman
New Mexico Commissioners: Kim Smith-Casford-Vice Chair, Billy Elbrock-Treasurer
CEO of the Cumbres & Toltec railroad: Eric Mason
Glossary (initialisms that may appear in this document):
ADA: Americans with Disabilities Act
ARPA: American Rescue Plan Act of 2021
BAR: Budget Adjustment Request
C&TS: Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad
C19: Covid-19 virus
CO: Colorado
CDOT: Colorado Department Of Transportation
CRF: Car Restoration Facility, Antonito
CS: Colorado Springs, CO
CTO: Cumbres Toltec Operating company
D&RG: Denver & Rio Grande Railroad
D&S: Durango Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
DFA: Department of Financial Administration (NM)
DRHS: Durango Railroad Historical Society
DTS: Dynamic Ticket Solutions (the prior ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FH: FareHarbor (the current ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FY: Fiscal Year
FRA: Federal Railroad Administration
G&A: General and Administrative
HPA: Historic Preservation Account, or Historic Preservaton Association
HR: Human Relations
JBC: Joint Budget Committee (CO)
LFC: Leglislative Finance Committee (NM)
MOW: Maintenance Of Way
NOI: Net Operating Income
NM: New Mexico
RFP: Request For Proposal
ROW: Right of Way
RPO: Railroad Post Office
RR: Railroad, the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, unless mentioned otherwise
SHF: State Historic Fund (CO)
SLV: San Louis Valley, the area that contains Antonito
TABB: Tracks Across Borders Byway
VIHR: Victorian Iron Horse Roundup (August 2021 special event)
YTD: Year To Date (fiscal normally)
‘the Friends’: The Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR, the museum arm,
http://www.cumbrestoltec.org
Commissioner Smith-Casford noted that chairman Graybill was absent for this meeting. She also thanked Chama Mayor Ernest Vigil for the use of the Chama City Hall for this meeting. Since she is the vice chairman, she assumed the role of chairman for this meeting.
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The RR has been pretty busy this last quarter. Mechanically things look OK. Marvin reports having been to Osier a few times this year. Things look good to begin work there to prepare to open for the season. He doesn't see any big problems. The springs feeding the water sources are having issues (drought). Those issues will be worked. Work began in January for the new parlor car. It has been insulated. Interior work is about to begin. If work can continue over the summer, it is hoped it can be in service next spring, maybe sooner. Some primer was applied to some hopper cars. There was a lot of graffiti them. If you see anyone &qt;painting&qt; any RR cars, please ask them to stop. Expect some trains this season take water at the Lava tank. It is planned on keeping this tank in service all summer. It helps with the water issues along the line. Marvin has talked with the a state forestry representative. This person will provide a wild fire training course for the RR. This will happen the first week of May. It provides a little bit of backup, just in case. All of the equipment is ready to go. There will be four locomotives ready to go by opening day. Locomotive 114 (the ex White Pass locomotive), no longer has that signage. It is now painted Cumberes & Toltec. The RR is proud to show it off now. Last year, another RR was getting credit for the work done. Those days are over. Commissioner Smith-Casford thanked Marvin & Max for the cloud logo on the 114. Commissioner Gibbs thanked the shop crew for the paint work on 114.
Steven Butler could not attend the meeting. Commissioner Gibbs read a prepared report from Steven. It follows:
4-25-26 commission Mechanical Report
The Chama and Antonito shops are nearing the end of our winter locomotive and passenger car maintenance. Tentative plans are to have locomotives 487 and 489 out for opening day. 463 and 488 will be serviceable but will depend on fire condition as to when we start running them. 168 will have its annual done the beginning of summer in time for its first scheduled operating days at the end of July. 315 will be returning to the railroad at the end of May or beginning of June.
Locomotives:
168 will need an annual inspection in June. No repair work is planned on it. It is scheduled to run at the end of July/beginning of August.
315 Is at the Colorado Railroad Museum and returning in May. It will need the Right cylinder Honed and new rings machined for it. DRHS and CTO need to negotiate a new operating agreement on the locomotive. It is scheduled for a Pete Lerro Charter in October.
463 Is in Antonito, receiving trailing truck work. The work includes getting new equalizers, pins and bushings. It went into service mid-November and will not need an annual until November of 2026
484 stored waiting on 1472 day inspection.
487 Has had its 5-year staybolt inspection, 6 staybolts and sleeves replaced because of damaged threads on the sleeves. It passed its annual inspection with the FRA at the beginning of April. Tender is having the wheels and axles replaced with new. Work is progressing on assembling the locomotive.
488 Passed its annual inspection with the FRA at the beginning of April. The spring rigging has been gone through with new equalizers, pins and bushings. Some work was done to the drivers and driving boxes. Work is progressing on assembling the locomotive.
489 The annual is done last spring and the locomotive has not been put in service yet. The spring rigging has been rebuilt with new equalizers, pins and bushings. The drivers are all back in place with new crown brasses, and hub liners. Work is progressing on assembling the locomotive.
492 boiler has had the Form 4 calculations started. The FRA has been out for a visual inspection of the boiler with the tubes removed. 3 of the corners have been cut out for replacement. Staybolt have been cut out to install a Flannery pattern of Flexible staybolts and all lower ridged staybolts in the lower portions of the firebox are being replaced with hollow staybolts to be ready for when it has to be converted to oil. Work on the running gear will start in the summer of 2026 as the Chama shop has time between keeping regular trains in service.
We were able to look through the K-37 files in Durango that had come out of the Alamosa shop for these locomotives. Between what we have in our records and what was in the D&S files, I was able to come up with a lot of documentation on the 492 as well as the other K-37’s with what work had been done to them over the years. This includes drawings and calculations for the 492’s new boiler barrel and firebox that were installed in 1948. This work boiler that had been done is the main reason it was picked over our other K-37 locomotives.
15 is in service but needs some work. I am working on tracking down some replacement pumps and reverser
19 is in service and running.
114 Has been painted to celebrate 150 years of Colorado and 250 years of America.
Staffing:
In order to minimize overtime, I will need to try to have a minimum of 14 shop employees to cover 3 shifts plus keeping the machine shop concentrated on machine work. This will give us 7 day a week coverage with 2 employees on all shifts other than night watchman. We have started to interview addition people.
Facilities:
Dan provided his report for March. It included the foundation drawings for the Pavilion that was designed by Spencer. An engineering survey for the Roundhouse was done to review the structural issues that we need to address. We are waiting on the final report and recommendation for what work we need to do to it.
Passenger cars- The Flat-top ADA car has gotten a new interior with a new restroom and a snack counter similar to the other ADA cars. All of the coaches have received there annual inspections this winter. Work has started on the 6th first class type car. The work will continue on this new car next winter.
Commissioner Gibbs then continued with a topic not in Stevens report.
There has been a lot of discussion regarding which K-37 should be restored, 492 vs. 497. Scott indicated, he was the one to decide which one will get restored. Steven did some research. Ultrasonic of both locomotives proved that 492's boiler was in much better shape than 497. 497's boiler was pretty thin. For what was seen on the form 4 for 497, work on the firebox and barrel would have been pretty extensive. With work beginning on 492, it is clear it is in much better condition than 497. Scott said it was his call. Now everyone knows why he made the decision as he did.
From March 2026, the organization remains in a strong financial position. HPA and the Commission continue to do well, with positive net income. The operating company saw a loss consistent with the preseason railroad operation. Net income from the prior year has seen a net decrease. Cash balances remain stable across all entities. Expenses remain within expectations. There is an increase in operating expenses. The organization is currently stable in all positions entering the peak operating season. The RR sees favorable revenue for the season for the FY. Employees return to work May 13. They will begin with CPR training. There are about 19 employees returning, as well as some new hires.
The RR is seeing strong year over year growth in ridership and revenue. Ridership is up over 14%, revenue is up 11%. This is occurring with a reduced marketing budget which leads to improved efficiency and focus. This is driving a change in strategy. The RR is moving away from low intent audiences, and moving to a high intent audience, meaning people ready to plan their trip or ready to book. The shift in strategy is showing up on the web site and channel performance. The NM.org campaign show a 22.6% conversion rate, nearly ten times the industry benchmark. The Texas monthly e-mail campaign has gained a 35% engagement rate. On the pay media side, the Google side has gained $22,000 in revenue so far (about three weeks). The video campaigns are performing strongly. There is a 55% view rate, well above industry averages. The RR is reaching audiences, the right audiences and getting them converted efficiently. 58 media placements have been gained, estimated at about four million. This includes national and international exposure adding to brand awareness. From a marketing channel perspective, organic search remains the top revenue driver generating over $211,000. Direct and referral traffic reflect growing brand recognition. Geographically, the core markets remain strong, with CO, NM & TX being the top drivers. CA and AZ are showing strong results. FL & IL are in the top 10. Marketing strategy will continue as intended targeting strong intent, high conversion channels that are efficiently driving revenue today. Video content and other forms of story telling will be used to drive new interest in the RR. Converting existing demand efficiently is key, as well as bringing in future riders. E-Mail and social channels will continue to be used to connect with the existing audience. The web site will be modified to refine the experience, smoothing the booking experience. Robert is really encouraged by the early results. The system looks to be providing more riders and revenue. Commissioner Elbrock asked Robert to mention the USA today poll. Robert pointed out that USA Today is taking an online poll of best scenic train rides. The C&TS is on the poll. E-Mails have been going out to remind people to vote. Voting closes May 11. Anyone can vote once per day, per device. Vote daily on every device you own.
Commissioner Smith-Casford brought up a fence that needed to be repaired. She was asking Chama Mayor Vigil about it. The goal is to get the fence repaired by opening day. Commissioner Elbrock mentioned that in the past, the RR bought the material and the Village installed it. The Mayor said that sounds fine. Commissioner Smith-Casford then mentioned that councilwoman Victoria Gonzalez asked about getting a static locomotive for static display. This topic has come up in prior years. The commission is interested in addressing the issue with the Village. The commissioner suggest developing a task force with Victoria and various RR employees to explore the effort. She expects some roadblocks, but it is worth looking into. There might be a way to figure it out. It is worth getting together to explore the possibility. The commissioner asked if the Mayor had anything to address. Mayor Vigil responded. He stated if there is water in the Chama river, the town will have its tanks full. The water will be good. He thinks that Chama is ranked number 1 for water quality in NM. He had a meeting with Tyler
Smith-Casford then mentioned that the communities on both sides of the RR are very concerned with the fire danger this season. They want the rain to come. Commissioner Elbrock mentioned that there are still many questions on the train schedule for this season. He is as confused as anyone else. He has faith it will work.
Marvins and Stevens report covered almost everything. There is a lot of ballast to be spread. That spreading will not be held up by snow removal this year. The repainted ballast cars and 114 will be put to work fairly soon. Many thousand tons are to be spread.
TABB has seen a very active spring. The historical marker on the continental divide (on the road between Chama and Dulce US64) has been replaced thanks to the NM historic preservation office and NM DOT. A new typical wooden "Welcome to Colorful Colorado" sign has been placed on the dirt road between Navajo and Juanita. For a back road, the sign is really impressive. The sign was provided by CO DOT. It was installed by Archuleta County at no cost to TABB. There is a new interpretive sign at the ghost town of Juanita. That was also installed by Archuleta County. TABB has a good relationship with the county. That gives TABB two interpretive signs, with the other one being in Navajo State Park. When money becomes available, it is desired to install two or three more signs. A few more directional signs have been gained. It is understood that they have been installed by the Jicarilla Apache tribe of Dulce NM. That adds two new signs in the town of Dulce as well as one in Juanita. As far as events go, TABB will have a table at the D&S narrow gauge day, Friday. The following week, TABB is co-sponsoring with Visit Durango (the city agency that promotes tourism in the area) a traveling photo exhibit. This exhibit has two photographs from each of the 26 scenic byways in CO. It will be at the Durango visitor center on Main Ave. It will be in place until August third. A number of public receptions are planned. John reports that he has seen pictures of the exhibit, and it is rather impressive. If you are in the area while the exhibit is there, do stop by and see it. TABB has picked up several new board members. The county managers from Archuleta and La-Plata counties have joined. Both counties have been represented before, the new county managers continue the trend. There is a new representative from Visit Pagosa Springs. The effort continues to get a representative from the Southern Ute tribe and Rio Arriba county. TABB would like to see the C&TS continue the interactive phone app that is useful while traveling the byway. It is very useful while driving the byway, in the train yards, as well as on the train itself. Commissioner Smith-Casford asked about TABB fund raising. John answered that one nice donation came in. Other than that, it has been disappointing. TABB is looking for businesses to become interested. Currently there are three levels, $200, $500 and $1000. The aggressiveness in reaching out will increase in the future in Chama and Durango. Any leads would be helpful. TABB is looking forward to the season, to increase tourism.
Bill started by stating that the search for a new executive director is in progress. The prior one retired a few months ago. One excellent candidate will be interviewed in the very near future. Also, long term manager Gwen Lotz is stepping down. She has been with the Friends for 21 years. She started the job after retiring from a prior job. She will continue until a replacement is trained. Several interviews are scheduled next week for the position. Last year the Friends had three charters. This year, only one is planned, the Moonlight dinner train on June 27. This is a bit earlier in the season than in the past, but the Moon sets the schedule. Bill has had contact with the new food service people at Osier and expects a great time. There will not be a member train this year, but work is being done for a special train between C and D sessions in late June to get members together for a meal and discussions. The Friends have about 1760 members now. There is a membership drive on now. Volunteer registration for this season is going great. This is the first time that registration has been entirely online. Manual registrations can still be done. It has worked out really well, even for those not all that great on the internet. Bill then thanked commissioner Gibbs for beginning work on the deaccessioning policies being planned. Making sure the RR has a great deal of display equipment, but not of everything currently on the property. Work sessions A and B will be in Antonito. In June sessions will occur in both Antonito and Chama, sessions C and D. At the end of the year, there will be sessions in Antonito. Sessions E and F are to be done in Chama, pending gaining team leaders.
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Your Author, Me, Sam Seiber had a message for all (my written notes, see video for full details):
At the last meeting, Chairman Graybill asked me to introduce myself. That caught me by surprise, thus I was not prepared to do so.
I am Sam Seiber from Lakewood CO.
I fell in love with the C&TS at first sight 20 years ago.
I began doing the written reports 11 years ago. It was at the request of a Chama resident that had trouble hearing them at the Senior Center I began my reporting. Having a written report available on the internet meant that resident could view them on his computer at a size his eyes could read.
Later, I assisted Steve Forney in his video recordings of these meetings. Three years ago, Steve asked me to handle the videos. He was ready to retire from the job.
The reports and videos are accessible by all with internet access. People with vision or hearing issues have a way to learn the contents of the meetings, as well as the people world wide that can not travel to these meetings.
An advantage of my written reports being on the internet means the search engines see my reports. They are search-able.
I went to the Denver Train Show two weeks ago with the Galloping Goose 5 folks. Some people there recognized my name from my name tag. I was thanked by several for producing my written reports. (Thank you to all of you that read this report). Over the years, I have yet to hear any feedback about the videos I post.
The report gets 600 to 900 hits in the first 2 weeks after the commission meeting. It varies due to the topics covered or time of year. This meeting will likely do well, as folks are wondering about opening day status.
Video sees +- 30 of 100 views in its first two weeks of being posted. The benefit of the videos is people can hear/see exactly how something was said. I can also bring up the volume of speakers not close to a main microphone. The video is better than being here at the meeting.
As mentioned in my reports, I paraphrase everything. It is not a transcript. I fill in assumed details from prior meetings, or post meeting following up with the speaker.
My first priority is to post the written report as soon as I can. Normally, by midnight of the meeting day. Sometimes, it takes an additional day. The video is posted about one day after the written report.
I want to thank the commissioners, current and past, as well as various C&TS empployees for smoothing over access issues in the meeting venues. Mayor Vigil has been a great host here in Chama.
I enjoy doing this work. I will continue as long as I am able.
I was thanked by Bill Lock for providing headphones so he can better hear what occurs in the meeting. Commissioner Smith-Casford thanked me for what I do. The videos have been helpful when needing to go back to hear exactly what was said in a meeting.
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** An Executive Session may be called at any time during the meeting, pursuant to Commission Policy and Practices Manual v8.0,
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rights by the public body. The Governing Body may revise the order of the agenda items considered at this Open Meeting.
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