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Colorado Commissioners: Scott Gibbs-Secretary, Mark Graybill-Chairman
New Mexico Commissioners: Kim Smith-Casford-Vice Chair, Billy Elbrock-Treasurer
CEO of the Cumbres & Toltec railroad: Eric Mason
Glossary (initialisms that may appear in this document):
ADA: Americans with Disabilities Act
ARPA: American Rescue Plan Act of 2021
BAR: Budget Adjustment Request
C&TS: Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad
C19: Covid-19 virus
CO: Colorado
CDOT: Colorado Department Of Transportation
CRF: Car Restoration Facility, Antonito
CS: Colorado Springs, CO
CTO: Cumbres Toltec Operating company
D&RG: Denver & Rio Grande Railroad
D&S: Durango Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad
DFA: Department of Financial Administration (NM)
DRHS: Durango Railroad Historical Society
DTS: Dynamic Ticket Solutions (the prior ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FH: FareHarbor (the current ticketing company used by the C&TS)
FY: Fiscal Year
FRA: Federal Railroad Administration
G&A: General and Administrative
HPA: Historic Preservation Account, or Historic Preservaton Association
HR: Human Relations
JBC: Joint Budget Committee (CO)
LFC: Leglislative Finance Committee (NM)
MOW: Maintenance Of Way
NOI: Net Operating Income
NM: New Mexico
RFP: Request For Proposal
ROW: Right of Way
RPO: Railroad Post Office
RR: Railroad, the Cumbres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, unless mentioned otherwise
SHF: State Historic Fund (CO)
SLV: San Louis Valley, the area that contains Antonito
TABB: Tracks Across Borders Byway
VIHR: Victorian Iron Horse Roundup (August 2021 special event)
YTD: Year To Date (fiscal normally)
‘the Friends’: The Friends of the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR, the museum arm,
http://www.cumbrestoltec.org
no executive session
The topic of the emergency meeting was first discussed by several people.
Commissioner Graybill: The area has received 25 to 30% of normal moisture over the winter and early spring. The potential for fires along the ROW is great. This has been a process of figuring out mitigation. This resolution was the result.
Commissioner Gibbs:Normal snow fall for the Chama area is from July to the end of May 2026 would be about 104 inches of snow. To date, Chama received 28 inches. The current fire mitigation plan was developed in 2022 with the help of the Forest Service. It was also discussed with the D&S after they recovered from the 416 fire. The mitigation plan has been discussed with the Forest Service several times. They commented on it, and helped improve it. It is based on their probability of ignition tables that they use when working wildfires or trying to decide stage 1, stage 2, stage 3 forest management practices for wild land fire. Looking things over the last few weeks, the probabilities of ignition in the area from Chama to Cumbres, and even on the Antonito side is 100% for fine fuels. These are the one hour fine fuels. Things like fine grasses, and things like that. Normally the snow would knock those down. Make them flat, and decay. Not this year. There is still a lot of fine fuel standing. Those are the ones that everyone is worried about. One of the things that has happened recently is (seen several years ago in the Santa Fe national forest) is a little rain caused the fine fuels to jump up and sprout, then die. The tiny bit of moisture received in May is causing this issue. This issue is more critical now than it was during the delayed 2022 opening. Looking over the fire mitigation plan and the risk of operating using coal fired engines, oil fired engines, and diesels and determining the risks of using each type. On days where there is a 100% chance of ignition, they RR would have to decide to not run that day. The current expectation of the federal agencies is no fire starts along the ROW. If a fire is started and the fire patrol can not contain it, the RR will be billed for the full cost of putting out the fire. When the RR's insurance cap is reached, the states of CO & NM would be liable for the remainder of the cost. This is something the commissioners have to take into consideration. What would the commission be costing the states, should a fire get out of the control of the fire patrol. The RR has experienced a fire started by oil burner engine 489 during Christmas trains two years ago. The oil burners are not 100% safe to use for fire mitigation issues.
Graybill: He felt the summary was excellent. From an insurance point of view, the current carrier continues the policy as they feel the RR has a good fire mitigation plan. Due to the plan in place, the carrier still continues to insure the RR. Without the current plan, there is a high likelihood the insurance would be lost. There are only two or three carriers that will consider insuring the RR. Running the Georgetown Loop, Graybill talked to the other carriers. He was asked by them if they run a steam engine. He had to answer yes. They were not interested in insuring, weather running coal or oil. With the current good relationship with the insurer, the RR doesn't want to harm that relationship. Should the RR start a fire, it would jeopardize everyones chance of gaining insurance for steam engine operators. The RR must be very prudent.
Commissioner Smith-Casford: The current conditions didn't happen over night. It has been several years of lack of moisture. It has increased the chance of ignition of many of the fuels found along the RR. Back in 2002, when the Forest Service shut down the RR, the RR negotiated with Carson and Rio Grande National Forests, pointing out that fires do get started, but the RR puts them out. It is difficult at this time to promise that, with the current conditions. Lack of humidit, higher temperatures, and wind add to the risk of fire. The next few weeks look to be pretty bad. That is a reason for this resolution.
Gibbs: The ignition tables are pulled from the forest service handbook. The forest service liked the RR's plan, as their data was part of the RR's fire mitigation plans. The RR got a lot of support from Carson and Rio Grande forests, as well as the regional managers from the plan after their review. The plan has been used for several years and the forests have confidence in it, as well as the BLM. Right now, there has been several days recently that indicate 100% probability of ignition.
Graybill: It looks like soon, the RR will see a few weeks of rain potential. The smaller rainfall days will not fix things. It is going to take a lot of rain where the ground is saturated enough to bring down the fire danger. He pointed out how the commission wanted to be pro-active. They didn't want to wait until the end of the week to make a decision on opening on time. Trying to give the guests the most information possible as early as possible about the likely delay in opening. Guests have been contacted regarding the likely delay (not official until after the vote). With current information, it is not known which days would have to be canceled. Should the need to cancel 5 days of 10 days of operations would make for a bad customer experience for those canceled. The commission wants to make the best decision for the customers, communities and team members.
Smith-Casford: She suggested that Scott Gibbs, or Steven Butler detail the current status of the engines and cars. There are suggestions that the RR has been hiding behind equipment not ready to use.
Gibbs: 114 is operational and has already made trips out of Antonito. 168, its annual inspection is underway. It is due to run July 30 for the 250/150 anniversary. 463, its trailing truck rebuild is nearly complete. 487 has a fire in it on this day for a test run later this week. 488 is ready for operation but waiting for rain before test operation out of Chama. Its tender is not currently not hooked up, but takes just a few hours to do so. This engine won't be used until enough moisture arrives. 489 had test runs in the Chama yard last week. It is back together, ready to run. All passenger cars have had their annual inspections. The Antonito shops have modified an older ADA car, and installed a snack bar. They also completed a brand new coach, 526. The fleet is ready to operate and have passengers. The locomotives are ready to pull trains. We need some moisture.
Graybill: He was asked if the RR can not run steam engines, why not use 114 (the diesel). He answered that diesels start fires as well. There is a new fire in WY started by a BNSF train. Years ago, Graybill had a train operation in FL. Twice, diesels in humid FL started fires. A number of years agof, another train operator in CO started a fire with their diesel (ed. Royal Gorge train). Operating oil or diesel engines does not eliminate fire danger. This has been a very difficult decision to be made by the commission. The commissioners have been asking team members for their ideas. The commission wants to find ways to run. The risk levels at this time really don't allow the RR to operate.
Commissioner Elbrock: In 135 years of record keeping, the winter of 2025-26 was the worst for the watershed. The RR wants to be good stewards of the area, for the forest service, BLM, private lands. This is one of those tough decisions.
Graybill: He said that there are other steam operations able to run. Even though they might be close by, they operate in a different environment. They have helicopters on standby. That type of response is different than that of the RR. He then said that now is the time for questions or comments.
John Bush: He understands the plan. He understood that the possible opening date is June 9. He wonders how firm that date is. He would like to know a date for his customers at his bed and breakfast. How can he let them know that the RR is open.
Graybill: The RR will try to look a week in advance at conditions to determine a date. If the RR gets a lot of moisture, great. If things still look dry, say on June 2, the opening day will slip. June 9 is a flexible start date. We wish it could be more firm. Back in 2022, when things were similar it was decided to open in July. This year, there is optimism that things can get started sooner than July.
Bush: Will the Friends work sessions in June be in session?
Bill Lock: Yes, the work sessions are already underway in Antonito. Sessions A and B will be performed in Antonito over the next two weeks. A special session will begin June 10 in Chama. Sessions C and D will be primary in Chama. The Friends have every intention to continue. The session members will be very fire aware. Every work site will have water available. Bill regretted to inform the RR that the June moonlight train will not operate. Possibly run it at the end of July. Canceling the June train is out of concern for what the RR is facing this year. Bill then wanted to move to a more up note by introducing Henry Sandals (ed. my guess on spelling) the new executive director of the Friends. Today marks his first day on the job. He is excited to be on board to help the Friends gain their goals. Bill and Henry will be at the next commission meeting for a formal introduction. Bill reports that Henry is excited to get going in his new position. (warm welcome from the commissioners).
Smith-Cassford: She pulled up the plan for this season. She pointed out how fire and moisture conditions are to be reviewed weekly beginning June 2, 2026. The postponement may be extened on a week to week basis until the CTO LLC board of directors will decide based on existing and forcasted fire conditions allow the RR to open. This means the commission is granting the CTO the decision, thus avoiding a meeting for each delay in opening. The CTO will communicate with the local businesses on the opening decisions.
Eric Mason: He pointed out how the RR will work with the area businesses to collect e-mail addresses. E-mail will go out in a timely manner to keep the businesses up to date on any decisions.
Graybill: This has been an incredibly difficult decision for everyone. The vote to approve/disapprove resolution 2026-002 was motioned, seconded then voted upon. All commissioners voted to approve.
Lock: He mentioned he understands the decision, having been a commissioner in 2022.
All commissioners voted yes.
** An Executive Session may be called at any time during the meeting, pursuant to Commission Policy and Practices Manual v8.0,
adopted May 20,2023 regarding limited personnel matters; strategy preliminary to attorney-client privilege pertaining to threatening or pending
litigation in which the public is or may become a prticipant, discussion of the purchase, acquisition or disposal of real property or water
rights by the public body. The Governing Body may revise the order of the agenda items considered at this Open Meeting.
Commission meetings are open to the public. If you are an individual with a disability who needs an auxiliary aid, service, or
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